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	<title>Comments on: Perceptions Of Required Ability Act As A Proxy For Actual Required Ability In Explaining The Gender Gap</title>
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	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
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		<title>By: rndn comments on &#8220;(unknown story)&#8221; &#124; blog.offeryour.com</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-186202</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rndn comments on &#8220;(unknown story)&#8221; &#124; blog.offeryour.com]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2015 22:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required&#8230; [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] <a href="http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required&#038;#8230" rel="nofollow">http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required&#038;#8230</a>; [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Carl Shulman</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-186098</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Carl Shulman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2015 04:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[It looks like a big part of it may have been the much greater prominence and pay of STEM (especially E, and M) relative to other occupations in the Soviet Union, so that learning math was the clear choice even if you might have wanted to do other things in a country with a different distribution of rewards.

A much larger share of talented people went into STEM fields in the Soviet Union, while managers were marginalized (or had to be engineers).

http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1979/jul-aug/heuer.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like a big part of it may have been the much greater prominence and pay of STEM (especially E, and M) relative to other occupations in the Soviet Union, so that learning math was the clear choice even if you might have wanted to do other things in a country with a different distribution of rewards.</p>
<p>A much larger share of talented people went into STEM fields in the Soviet Union, while managers were marginalized (or had to be engineers).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1979/jul-aug/heuer.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1979/jul-aug/heuer.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Louise C</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-184463</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Louise C]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2015 17:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[What nonsense. GRE prefers American white men, that is well known, so you can throw away your &#039;research&#039;. I don&#039;t know about SAT.
Also, to say that these results are the non-stereotype threat scenario is simply silly. There is huge influence upon girls from the moment they are born, to not care about their ability to think and instead care about their cuteness. For boys the exact opposite.
Of course in a study where stereotype threat is measured they have to take an initial condition and see how much they can widen the gap by imposing extra stereotype cues. That does not mean that the initial condition was 0!
In the society we live in it is not possible to say whether women and men differ in intellectual abilities, because this is not a stereotype free society by far. By the way, if you look at for instance Iran, STEM fields are mostly occupied by women...so apparently it can also be the other way around. Perhaps women are the geniuses, but because society is adapted to men&#039;s preferences men prevail. Have you ever thought about that?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What nonsense. GRE prefers American white men, that is well known, so you can throw away your &#8216;research&#8217;. I don&#8217;t know about SAT.<br />
Also, to say that these results are the non-stereotype threat scenario is simply silly. There is huge influence upon girls from the moment they are born, to not care about their ability to think and instead care about their cuteness. For boys the exact opposite.<br />
Of course in a study where stereotype threat is measured they have to take an initial condition and see how much they can widen the gap by imposing extra stereotype cues. That does not mean that the initial condition was 0!<br />
In the society we live in it is not possible to say whether women and men differ in intellectual abilities, because this is not a stereotype free society by far. By the way, if you look at for instance Iran, STEM fields are mostly occupied by women&#8230;so apparently it can also be the other way around. Perhaps women are the geniuses, but because society is adapted to men&#8217;s preferences men prevail. Have you ever thought about that?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-181215</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2015 21:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Huge numbers like 300 come from Steve Hsu&#039;s blog, that Jennifer cited. But they really come from the idea of mutational load, which is why I suggest Leroi.

It is common for selective breeding to move a trait 30 standard deviations. It would be easy to breed humans that are 9 feet. It is unlikely that one could easily move human height 30 standard deviations, but it is probably easy to move weight 30 standard deviations. That means that in the population before breeding there exists variation enough to move 30 standard deviations. If the trait is mainly controlled by mutational load, then spell-checking the genome should move it the whole way all on its own.

IQ 300 is meaningless. What it really means is that one could find in the typical individual 4 sets of variants, each of which, when corrected would yield IQ 150. It is not clear what would happen if all 4 sets were corrected. It might have bad effects, since the brain is designed under the assumption of mutational load. This concern is more plausible in the case of height than IQ.

Steve Hsu gives various models and reality checks. There is no direct measurement of the mutation load hypothesis. But there has been fairly direct measurement that no common variant contributes more than 1/100 part of the variance, probably not even 1/1000. So there must be lots of relevant genes and it is hard to find a model compatible with that that does not predict that everyone has many bad variants.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huge numbers like 300 come from Steve Hsu&#8217;s blog, that Jennifer cited. But they really come from the idea of mutational load, which is why I suggest Leroi.</p>
<p>It is common for selective breeding to move a trait 30 standard deviations. It would be easy to breed humans that are 9 feet. It is unlikely that one could easily move human height 30 standard deviations, but it is probably easy to move weight 30 standard deviations. That means that in the population before breeding there exists variation enough to move 30 standard deviations. If the trait is mainly controlled by mutational load, then spell-checking the genome should move it the whole way all on its own.</p>
<p>IQ 300 is meaningless. What it really means is that one could find in the typical individual 4 sets of variants, each of which, when corrected would yield IQ 150. It is not clear what would happen if all 4 sets were corrected. It might have bad effects, since the brain is designed under the assumption of mutational load. This concern is more plausible in the case of height than IQ.</p>
<p>Steve Hsu gives various models and reality checks. There is no direct measurement of the mutation load hypothesis. But there has been fairly direct measurement that no common variant contributes more than 1/100 part of the variance, probably not even 1/1000. So there must be lots of relevant genes and it is hard to find a model compatible with that that does not predict that everyone has many bad variants.</p>
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		<title>By: Nita</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-181185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nita]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2015 19:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the recs, JenniferRM and Anonymous! I had heard of the &quot;genome spelling check&quot; idea, but I still wonder where the estimation of IQ 300 came from. To me, it&#039;s like a claim that fixing gene errors will make everyone 9 feet tall.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the recs, JenniferRM and Anonymous! I had heard of the &#8220;genome spelling check&#8221; idea, but I still wonder where the estimation of IQ 300 came from. To me, it&#8217;s like a claim that fixing gene errors will make everyone 9 feet tall.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-181154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2015 16:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Nita, the topic is &lt;a href=&quot;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_load#Mutation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;mutational load&lt;/a&gt; and the book to read is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Mutants-Genetic-Variety-Human-Body/dp/0142004820/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mutants&lt;/a&gt; by Aramnd Leroi. I don&#039;t think it talks specifically about IQ, but that&#039;s not the part that confuses people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nita, the topic is <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_load#Mutation" rel="nofollow">mutational load</a> and the book to read is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Mutants-Genetic-Variety-Human-Body/dp/0142004820/" rel="nofollow">Mutants</a> by Aramnd Leroi. I don&#8217;t think it talks specifically about IQ, but that&#8217;s not the part that confuses people.</p>
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		<title>By: JenniferRM</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-181107</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JenniferRM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2015 07:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3529#comment-181107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Nita 

Naively I would guess Scott&#039;s talking about the research areas that &lt;a href=&quot;http://infoproc.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Steve Hsu tends to write about&lt;/a&gt;?

My basic model from reading abstracts and watching videos of research talks (over a year ago, so maybe other people&#039;s models have clarified since then in response to better data) is that brains are constructed by lots of genes and when a few genes go awry they become less functional but still basically work.  There are tens of thousands of ways for brains to break down like this, and each way reduces IQ a little bit.  

Basically all humans have many such slightly broken genes (in a unique pattern), losing fractions of a point here and there, but people who are &quot;smarter than average&quot; have slightly fewer.

Once we&#039;ve figured out all the ways that brain genes can be &quot;misspelled&quot;, it should be theoretically (if not pragmatically) possible to produce human genomes with no broken brain genes... &quot;locally modal genomes&quot;... like running spelling correct on a document.  Rough calculations suggest that a brain produced by a &quot;fully spellchecked genome&quot; would have an IQ of ~300.

Aside from this potentially being economically costly, and politically infeasible, there might be a &quot;real&quot; barrier to this in that real genomes are often full of compromises, often in response to diseases.  Europeans have mutations to fight tuberculosis (a double dose of which gives cystic fibrosis) and Africans have anti-malarial mutations (a double dose of which gives sickle cell anemia) and so on.  Losing a few IQ points to avoid a terrible disease can be worth it, and a 300 IQ spell checked genome &lt;em&gt;might&lt;/em&gt; end up susceptible to everything, and thus be a pragmatically losing proposition?

Evolution is pretty clever.  Doing better than it will take serious work :P]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nita </p>
<p>Naively I would guess Scott&#8217;s talking about the research areas that <a href="http://infoproc.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Steve Hsu tends to write about</a>?</p>
<p>My basic model from reading abstracts and watching videos of research talks (over a year ago, so maybe other people&#8217;s models have clarified since then in response to better data) is that brains are constructed by lots of genes and when a few genes go awry they become less functional but still basically work.  There are tens of thousands of ways for brains to break down like this, and each way reduces IQ a little bit.  </p>
<p>Basically all humans have many such slightly broken genes (in a unique pattern), losing fractions of a point here and there, but people who are &#8220;smarter than average&#8221; have slightly fewer.</p>
<p>Once we&#8217;ve figured out all the ways that brain genes can be &#8220;misspelled&#8221;, it should be theoretically (if not pragmatically) possible to produce human genomes with no broken brain genes&#8230; &#8220;locally modal genomes&#8221;&#8230; like running spelling correct on a document.  Rough calculations suggest that a brain produced by a &#8220;fully spellchecked genome&#8221; would have an IQ of ~300.</p>
<p>Aside from this potentially being economically costly, and politically infeasible, there might be a &#8220;real&#8221; barrier to this in that real genomes are often full of compromises, often in response to diseases.  Europeans have mutations to fight tuberculosis (a double dose of which gives cystic fibrosis) and Africans have anti-malarial mutations (a double dose of which gives sickle cell anemia) and so on.  Losing a few IQ points to avoid a terrible disease can be worth it, and a 300 IQ spell checked genome <em>might</em> end up susceptible to everything, and thus be a pragmatically losing proposition?</p>
<p>Evolution is pretty clever.  Doing better than it will take serious work 😛</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-180208</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 15:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[This one seems to me worse than usual. The neglect of the literature is, perhaps, par for the course, but defining total GRE as M+3xV I can only describe as fraud.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This one seems to me worse than usual. The neglect of the literature is, perhaps, par for the course, but defining total GRE as M+3xV I can only describe as fraud.</p>
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		<title>By: JK</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-180154</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 13:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[As a general rule, social science studies published by high-impact generalist journals like Nature and PNAS are junk. The purpose of their publication is to make headlines, and scientific rigor and common sense usually take a backseat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a general rule, social science studies published by high-impact generalist journals like Nature and PNAS are junk. The purpose of their publication is to make headlines, and scientific rigor and common sense usually take a backseat.</p>
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		<title>By: dlr</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/24/perceptions-of-required-ability-act-as-a-proxy-for-actual-required-ability-in-explaining-the-gender-gap/#comment-180150</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dlr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2015 13:09:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The real question in my mind is why Science, or the National  Science Foundation would publicize this 10th rate study in the first place.  And not just publicize -- highly publicize.   It seems like the inherent problems in the study would be obvious to anyone at first glance.   There seem to be three choices: 
1)  actual inability of the editors to think clearly  
2) deliberate promotion of junk science for political propaganda purposes 3) uncritical acceptance of any result that confirms their preferred beliefs.   

It would be charitable to assume 3.   Alas, I lean towards 2.  You can&#039;t prove deliberate dishonesty of course.   But,  in recent years &#039;high impact&#039; scientific publications, like Science magazine, and Nature magazine, seem to have become nothing more than  propaganda arms of the liberal &#039;consensus&#039;.  About the only subjects you can trust them on anymore is the hard sciences -- stuff like molecular biology, and chemistry.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question in my mind is why Science, or the National  Science Foundation would publicize this 10th rate study in the first place.  And not just publicize &#8212; highly publicize.   It seems like the inherent problems in the study would be obvious to anyone at first glance.   There seem to be three choices:<br />
1)  actual inability of the editors to think clearly<br />
2) deliberate promotion of junk science for political propaganda purposes 3) uncritical acceptance of any result that confirms their preferred beliefs.   </p>
<p>It would be charitable to assume 3.   Alas, I lean towards 2.  You can&#8217;t prove deliberate dishonesty of course.   But,  in recent years &#8216;high impact&#8217; scientific publications, like Science magazine, and Nature magazine, seem to have become nothing more than  propaganda arms of the liberal &#8216;consensus&#8217;.  About the only subjects you can trust them on anymore is the hard sciences &#8212; stuff like molecular biology, and chemistry.</p>
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