Comments on: The Phatic And The Anti-Inductive http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/ In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging Fri, 24 Jul 2015 19:08:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 By: Joe http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-177348 Tue, 27 Jan 2015 14:09:41 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-177348 I’m glad someone else has mentioned this. I have similar memory issues and have learned to hide it. I will often pretend to forget things about people, purposely asking them the same questions I might have asked in previous weeks, so that I can avoid the look of fear in their eyes as they wonder why a casual acquaintance knows so much about them. It has the bonus of keeping a conversation going, which helps them build up trust. Once they trust me enough, I can stop doing it (i.e. I can tell from their body language that they are no longer concerned by it).

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]]> By: Anonymous http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-176839 Mon, 26 Jan 2015 04:52:35 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-176839 And yet, given even an elementary understanding of game theory (which I mostly learned from Yudkowski) the behavior of these schoolyard bullies makes perfect sense.

SNOOTlets and other such subcategories of mega-nerds as we were, by maintaining the speech and behavior patterns expected of them by parents and teachers, are viewed as signaling their intention to defect (in the same way that passing notes along and referring to unpopular teachers with derisive nicknames [but never to their faces] can be seen as cooperation-signals). As per Scott’s fish-farmer analogy, the rational strategy is to punish the defector with overwhelming force. As authority figures whether theoretical (like Scott’s Mob Boss) or actual (like teachers and paraprofessional) are seen to be on the other side, the kids must take matters into their own hands.

That many of us never noticed that there was a Prisoner’s Dilemma until we were punished for perceived defection does not necessarily mean it wasn’t there. School, especially American public school, can be an inhumane and dehumanizing institution.

It is just these anti-SNOOTlets’ cavalier disregard for those who know better than they are coupled with their willingness to take the law into their own hands that will be critical skills in the future. After all, nobody who spends the entire two hours pushing the “wedgie” button will be tempted in the least to let the AI out of the box.

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]]> By: Filling in the occupational blanks - sacha chua :: living an awesome life http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-176222 Sat, 24 Jan 2015 13:05:07 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-176222 […] conversation, letting them easily think of questions to ask, addressing the phatic nature of small talk (we’re not actually talking, we’re making polite […]

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]]> By: Scott http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-176050 Fri, 23 Jan 2015 05:52:51 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-176050 It seems like anti-inductive systems tend to be produced in a competitive environment that allows for a meta-game (ie, making strategic decisions that take into account not just the rules of the game, but how you anticipate other players to act).

Certainly the stock-market and job-hunting would seem to fit this description. (when writing CVs/cover letters, you are supposed to “stand out” – something which can only be done by knowing what, on aggregate, others are doing)

Does anti-inductive apply to anything else? Or is it just non-gamer term for “metagame”?

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]]> By: stillnotking http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-175317 Tue, 20 Jan 2015 15:09:56 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-175317 Considering how big a danger human beings are to other human beings, it’s not surprising that mere common humanity isn’t enough to inspire trust.

The point of shibboleths is not that they can’t be faked, but that they require some level of effort and familiarity to fake. A low bar is better than none.

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]]> By: alwhite http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-174493 Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:14:50 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-174493 What you are calling the phatic response in psychotherapy is best known as empathy. I refer you to the work of Brene Brown for an understanding of empathy and how it helps people improve their lives.

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/i-thought-it-was-just-me-bren-brown/1100556274?ean=9781592402632

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]]> By: Quite Likely http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-174491 Fri, 16 Jan 2015 17:00:25 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-174491 Is the ‘phatic’ meme going around, or does whoever wrote this io9 article read Slate Star Codex: http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/

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]]> By: Lost_republic http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-174349 Fri, 16 Jan 2015 06:19:56 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-174349
There are other people for whom “I feel your pain” is the most enraging thing you could possibly say. It shows that you’re not taking them seriously or engaging with them, just saying exactly the same thing you do to all your other patients.
There are people for whom coming up with some sort of unique perspective or clever solution for their problems is exactly the right response. Even if it doesn’t work, it at least proves that you are thinking hard about what they are saying.

This neatly frames all the issues I have had helping clever people with mental health issues — all their treatment was phatic and “stupidly obvious” in a way that perpetuated frustration and mistrust.

Is this distinction (or something like it, as a known subcomponent of “treat patients according to their particular needs”) recognized more broadly among mental health professionals?

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]]> By: Jadagul http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-174227 Fri, 16 Jan 2015 00:39:25 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-174227 I confess to being unclear on the distinction you’re making between semantics and pragmatics, and what you mean by saying semantics are hard-wired in the brain. I am, however, confident that most people will often interpret “how are you doing?” as being a greeting that is not in fact a request for information. And since most people will interpret it that way, and most people know that most people will interpret it that way, that’s what it means.

(sidenote: tone of voice is important here. I often have interactions where I ask “how are you doing?” at the very beginning as a greeting, and “so, how are you doing?” in a different tone of voice, a minute or two later, as a request for information. They mean different things despite being homonyms).

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]]> By: Creutzer http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/11/the-phatic-and-the-anti-inductive/#comment-174206 Thu, 15 Jan 2015 21:52:53 +0000 http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3513#comment-174206 That was me.

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