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	<title>Comments on: Alcoholics Anonymous: Much More Than You Wanted To Know</title>
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	<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/</link>
	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
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		<title>By: Ken Hooper</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-159032</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ken Hooper]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-159032</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Where is Section II? I might have liked reading it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Where is Section II? I might have liked reading it.</p>
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		<title>By: JGivskud</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-158084</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JGivskud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-158084</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just startet reading your blog and I like it a lot.

I have done research on addiction and I agree with you that its terrible. To me, that is what happens when the wrong science studies a phenomenon or seeks to study something that is not even scientific like the concept of addiction - which ended up my conclusion. What I understand is that (alcohol)addiction was a concept introduced by the temperance movement and only reluctantly acceptet by APA some years after antabus was discovered, though this version is probably somewhat conspirational and I cannot confirm it. But addiction &quot;science&quot; shows very clearly what happens when political and moral ideas seeps into medical science and doctors try to &quot;fix&quot; peoples lives without becoming socially engaged. 

The critique of missing control groups is, however, naive in my opinion, unless you have very large sample sizes and control for socioeconomic factors as well as for life events. What AA does, in my view, is offer you support and possibly a new identity. Maybe you need more than that, maybe you need support, but not a new identity and you group enforces that, or maybe you need a new identity but is only offered support. Or maybe your group is just good or bad - just like every other group. Any other group could probably do the same job, but you might not be invitet into other groups and they might be less tolerant of relapses. From an epistemic point of view, AA is not very good, but as a social tool for changing your life I think it is quite effective, especially if other social support is scarce. 

I think one of the most interesting studies on addiction is Bruce K Alexanders &quot;Rat park&quot; and he also have very interesting things to say about addiction in his Globalization of Addiction&quot;. Unfortunatey his concepts become too broad.

It is an interesting subject though, but getting an interesting hold on it is hard.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just startet reading your blog and I like it a lot.</p>
<p>I have done research on addiction and I agree with you that its terrible. To me, that is what happens when the wrong science studies a phenomenon or seeks to study something that is not even scientific like the concept of addiction &#8211; which ended up my conclusion. What I understand is that (alcohol)addiction was a concept introduced by the temperance movement and only reluctantly acceptet by APA some years after antabus was discovered, though this version is probably somewhat conspirational and I cannot confirm it. But addiction &#8220;science&#8221; shows very clearly what happens when political and moral ideas seeps into medical science and doctors try to &#8220;fix&#8221; peoples lives without becoming socially engaged. </p>
<p>The critique of missing control groups is, however, naive in my opinion, unless you have very large sample sizes and control for socioeconomic factors as well as for life events. What AA does, in my view, is offer you support and possibly a new identity. Maybe you need more than that, maybe you need support, but not a new identity and you group enforces that, or maybe you need a new identity but is only offered support. Or maybe your group is just good or bad &#8211; just like every other group. Any other group could probably do the same job, but you might not be invitet into other groups and they might be less tolerant of relapses. From an epistemic point of view, AA is not very good, but as a social tool for changing your life I think it is quite effective, especially if other social support is scarce. </p>
<p>I think one of the most interesting studies on addiction is Bruce K Alexanders &#8220;Rat park&#8221; and he also have very interesting things to say about addiction in his Globalization of Addiction&#8221;. Unfortunatey his concepts become too broad.</p>
<p>It is an interesting subject though, but getting an interesting hold on it is hard.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156921</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:42:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156921</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are some members of AA who will sign off an entire court card if the person doesn&#039;t want to be there.  Unfortunately, with any diverse group, there will be people who blindly follow instructions because authority.  I&#039;ve also known bartenders who will pass a court card among the patrons, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some members of AA who will sign off an entire court card if the person doesn&#8217;t want to be there.  Unfortunately, with any diverse group, there will be people who blindly follow instructions because authority.  I&#8217;ve also known bartenders who will pass a court card among the patrons, too.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Evidence on AA Dan O&#039;Huiginn</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156597</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[&#187; Evidence on AA Dan O&#039;Huiginn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 11:51:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] wonder how fair that is. Is AA, as Hollywood would have it, the One True Way to cope with addition? Scott at SlateStarCodex has dug into the research. Turns out that even that can&#8217;t help: &#8220;the studies [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] wonder how fair that is. Is AA, as Hollywood would have it, the One True Way to cope with addition? Scott at SlateStarCodex has dug into the research. Turns out that even that can&#8217;t help: &#8220;the studies [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Half Assed Cast ep. 14 &#8211; Champ in the Bedroom &#124; Half Assed Cast</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Half Assed Cast ep. 14 &#8211; Champ in the Bedroom &#124; Half Assed Cast]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2014 06:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] AA &#8211; This blog post bugs people [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] AA &#8211; This blog post bugs people [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Alexander</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156387</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156387</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#039;s depot Antabuse?! Why did nobody tell me?!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s depot Antabuse?! Why did nobody tell me?!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Caton</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156386</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Caton]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2014 04:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156386</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Surprised that disulfiram (Antabuse) came up only briefly in the comments.  It&#039;s been around a while and its effectiveness is limited because people won&#039;t take it.  This is similar to antipsychotics, which fortunately have depot formulations.  And now, so does disulfiram - Esperal, used at this point mostly in Poland for reasons unclear to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surprised that disulfiram (Antabuse) came up only briefly in the comments.  It&#8217;s been around a while and its effectiveness is limited because people won&#8217;t take it.  This is similar to antipsychotics, which fortunately have depot formulations.  And now, so does disulfiram &#8211; Esperal, used at this point mostly in Poland for reasons unclear to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Linky Friday #88 &#124; Ordinary Times</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156007</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Linky Friday #88 &#124; Ordinary Times]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156007</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] [H5] From Vikram Bath: Scott Alexander reviews the evidence on whether Alcoholics Anonymous works. Hilarity ensues. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] [H5] From Vikram Bath: Scott Alexander reviews the evidence on whether Alcoholics Anonymous works. Hilarity ensues. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: AddictionMyth</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-156006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[AddictionMyth]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2014 11:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=3063#comment-156006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Welcome to the &#039;addiction&#039; clusterflux.  As you&#039;ll discover it&#039;s a whole lotta nuthin.  It&#039;s not only the research on AA but the &#039;science&#039; about addiction itself that is completely bogus.  It&#039;s a small cabal of 12-stepper public policy experts and scientists that seems to be running the show.  Here are some names I&#039;ve come across:

Aaron White - NIAAA/NIH - rat models for &#039;blackouts&#039;
George Koob - NIAAA/NIH - rat models for human &#039;addiction&#039;
Keith Humphreys - Psychiatrist - &quot;Scientific evidence alone is not sufficient basis for health policy&quot;
Thomas McClellan - Psychiatrist - &#039;addiction is a mangeable disease like diabetes&#039;

Also there is one huge blindspot in AA research: suicides.  I suspect AA greatly increases risk of suicide, but of course expect that inconvenient truth to be suppressed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome to the &#8216;addiction&#8217; clusterflux.  As you&#8217;ll discover it&#8217;s a whole lotta nuthin.  It&#8217;s not only the research on AA but the &#8216;science&#8217; about addiction itself that is completely bogus.  It&#8217;s a small cabal of 12-stepper public policy experts and scientists that seems to be running the show.  Here are some names I&#8217;ve come across:</p>
<p>Aaron White &#8211; NIAAA/NIH &#8211; rat models for &#8216;blackouts&#8217;<br />
George Koob &#8211; NIAAA/NIH &#8211; rat models for human &#8216;addiction&#8217;<br />
Keith Humphreys &#8211; Psychiatrist &#8211; &#8220;Scientific evidence alone is not sufficient basis for health policy&#8221;<br />
Thomas McClellan &#8211; Psychiatrist &#8211; &#8216;addiction is a mangeable disease like diabetes&#8217;</p>
<p>Also there is one huge blindspot in AA research: suicides.  I suspect AA greatly increases risk of suicide, but of course expect that inconvenient truth to be suppressed.</p>
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		<title>By: RCF</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/10/26/alcoholics-anonymous-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/#comment-155982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RCF]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2014 06:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Except that the graph doesn&#039;t say &quot;5% are in their twelfth month of membership&quot;. It says that 5% those coming to AA within the first year have remained 12 months.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Except that the graph doesn&#8217;t say &#8220;5% are in their twelfth month of membership&#8221;. It says that 5% those coming to AA within the first year have remained 12 months.</p>
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