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	<title>Comments on: [Ozy] A Response to Spandrell</title>
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	<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/</link>
	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
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		<title>By: dhill</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-150522</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dhill]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2014 15:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I got a very good hypothesis from my computational complexity professor: It could be like Sickle-cell disease. One recessive gene gives you evolutionary advantage in the environment with malaria. It could be just like that with a complex of genes responsible for propensity to homosexuality. Part of those genes might give you some kind of advantage (artistic creativity and whatnot).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I got a very good hypothesis from my computational complexity professor: It could be like Sickle-cell disease. One recessive gene gives you evolutionary advantage in the environment with malaria. It could be just like that with a complex of genes responsible for propensity to homosexuality. Part of those genes might give you some kind of advantage (artistic creativity and whatnot).</p>
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		<title>By: Lizardbreath</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-149396</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lizardbreath]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2014 07:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Matthew wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;I suspect most men who would not catcall a woman have also never seen catcalling. (I have never seen catcalling.)

This is presumably because men who think catcalling is acceptable behavior won’t do in the presence of a man that might not think catcalling is acceptable behavior.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

:nod: Gloria Steinem said the same thing in one of the articles later collected into &lt;i&gt;Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions&lt;/i&gt; (1983). She was talking to both men (&quot;You&#039;ve never seen it, but it happens&quot;) and women (&quot;He&#039;s never seen it because he&#039;s decent; don&#039;t assume he&#039;s a liar&quot;). (Though the latter was far, far less necessary back then.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matthew wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I suspect most men who would not catcall a woman have also never seen catcalling. (I have never seen catcalling.)</p>
<p>This is presumably because men who think catcalling is acceptable behavior won’t do in the presence of a man that might not think catcalling is acceptable behavior.</p></blockquote>
<p>:nod: Gloria Steinem said the same thing in one of the articles later collected into <i>Outrageous Acts and Everyday Rebellions</i> (1983). She was talking to both men (&#8220;You&#8217;ve never seen it, but it happens&#8221;) and women (&#8220;He&#8217;s never seen it because he&#8217;s decent; don&#8217;t assume he&#8217;s a liar&#8221;). (Though the latter was far, far less necessary back then.)</p>
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		<title>By: I apologize</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-148142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[I apologize]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2014 03:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite&gt;However, I have been constantly distressed by my breasts since puberty; when I thought I was cis, I would have constant fantasies of cutting them off with a knife; when I stop binding regularly, I notice a deep loss of psychological stability.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Just had to get that off your chest, eh?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite><p>However, I have been constantly distressed by my breasts since puberty; when I thought I was cis, I would have constant fantasies of cutting them off with a knife; when I stop binding regularly, I notice a deep loss of psychological stability.</p></blockquote>
<p>Just had to get that off your chest, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Nornagest</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-147160</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nornagest]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2014 19:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m probably going to regret asking this, but: what other theories?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m probably going to regret asking this, but: what other theories?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146932</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2014 16:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[other theories address this. that is a pretty large advantage of those theories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>other theories address this. that is a pretty large advantage of those theories.</p>
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		<title>By: a mildly gender disphoric male-born guy</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146860</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a mildly gender disphoric male-born guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2014 08:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Veronica, I emailed you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Veronica, I emailed you.</p>
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		<title>By: Unsolicited Advice</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Unsolicited Advice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;That isn’t a solution, it just passes the buck one step further. Why does such a massive and common problem with prenatal development persist? Why hasn’t natural selection solved it?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why hasn&#039;t natural selection solved all developmentally-related conditions, like autism? I don&#039;t know, but maybe prenatal development is hard to optimize. Maybe homosexuality is only an issue in the presence of certain genes. Prenatal development adds another layer of developmental noise.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That isn’t a solution, it just passes the buck one step further. Why does such a massive and common problem with prenatal development persist? Why hasn’t natural selection solved it?</p></blockquote>
<p>Why hasn&#8217;t natural selection solved all developmentally-related conditions, like autism? I don&#8217;t know, but maybe prenatal development is hard to optimize. Maybe homosexuality is only an issue in the presence of certain genes. Prenatal development adds another layer of developmental noise.</p>
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		<title>By: Unsolicited Advice</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146825</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Unsolicited Advice]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2014 01:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[The Wikipedia article was only intended to show that a prenatal hypothesis for homosexuality is popular. It was not intended to summarize all the research on the subject. For those who are interested, see this &lt;a href=&quot;http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/index1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;popular article&lt;/a&gt; and this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138231/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;journal review&lt;/a&gt; for a start.

So here are the physical or prenatal factors that relate to homosexuality:
- Birth order
- Digit ratio
- Handedness
- Oto-acoustic emissions (inner ear physiology)
- CAH women
- &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness_and_sexual_orientation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Left-handedness&lt;/a&gt;
- Maternal stress (weaker evidence)
- DES exposure (weaker evidence)

While some of these studies are stronger than others, this is an impressive collection of evidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wikipedia article was only intended to show that a prenatal hypothesis for homosexuality is popular. It was not intended to summarize all the research on the subject. For those who are interested, see this <a href="http://nymag.com/news/features/33520/index1.html" rel="nofollow">popular article</a> and this <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138231/" rel="nofollow">journal review</a> for a start.</p>
<p>So here are the physical or prenatal factors that relate to homosexuality:<br />
&#8211; Birth order<br />
&#8211; Digit ratio<br />
&#8211; Handedness<br />
&#8211; Oto-acoustic emissions (inner ear physiology)<br />
&#8211; CAH women<br />
&#8211; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handedness_and_sexual_orientation" rel="nofollow">Left-handedness</a><br />
&#8211; Maternal stress (weaker evidence)<br />
&#8211; DES exposure (weaker evidence)</p>
<p>While some of these studies are stronger than others, this is an impressive collection of evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: a mildly gender disphoric male-born guy</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146755</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a mildly gender disphoric male-born guy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[If you have the kind of body you consider attractive doesn&#039;t mean you feel attracted towards yourself. My sister has the body I would consider attractive but I do not lust after her.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you have the kind of body you consider attractive doesn&#8217;t mean you feel attracted towards yourself. My sister has the body I would consider attractive but I do not lust after her.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/15/ozy-a-response-to-spandrell/#comment-146751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matthew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2014 20:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s exactly responsive to this specific subthread, but I have a metaphor I&#039;d like to try out to illustrate something:

Bob smokes three packs a day for years.  Eventually, he develops sufficient lung damage that a lung transplant is the only way  he will live beyond the year.

Alice and Bob are talking.  Alice asks how Bob is doing, and Bob says, &quot;I need a new lung.&quot;  Alice says, &quot;I&#039;m not sure you deserve a new lung.  You&#039;ve been heavily smoking for years.  Probably there are other people deserve that lung transplant more.&quot;

The thing is, they can both be right.  Bob is correct when he says, &quot;I need a new lung.&quot;    Alice is correct (for some moral systems, anyway) when she says, &quot;You don&#039;t deserve a new lung.&quot;  The problem arises when Alice (and Cathy, and Dianna, and Evelyn, and Frank the Ally) assume that &quot;I need a new lung&quot; is connotationally equivalent to &quot;I deserve a new lung.&quot;  Bob might mean it that way.  But he might not!

(Where this metaphor breaks down, though, is that Henry from the other post &lt;i&gt;IS&lt;/i&gt; like Bob, except that a bunch of women are lining up to give him lungs.  Whereas Ben, who was born with a congenital pulmonary flaw, gets chased with pitchforks and torches whenever he mentions he needs a lung.)

[I suggest that responses to this be forked elsewhere, to restore column length.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s exactly responsive to this specific subthread, but I have a metaphor I&#8217;d like to try out to illustrate something:</p>
<p>Bob smokes three packs a day for years.  Eventually, he develops sufficient lung damage that a lung transplant is the only way  he will live beyond the year.</p>
<p>Alice and Bob are talking.  Alice asks how Bob is doing, and Bob says, &#8220;I need a new lung.&#8221;  Alice says, &#8220;I&#8217;m not sure you deserve a new lung.  You&#8217;ve been heavily smoking for years.  Probably there are other people deserve that lung transplant more.&#8221;</p>
<p>The thing is, they can both be right.  Bob is correct when he says, &#8220;I need a new lung.&#8221;    Alice is correct (for some moral systems, anyway) when she says, &#8220;You don&#8217;t deserve a new lung.&#8221;  The problem arises when Alice (and Cathy, and Dianna, and Evelyn, and Frank the Ally) assume that &#8220;I need a new lung&#8221; is connotationally equivalent to &#8220;I deserve a new lung.&#8221;  Bob might mean it that way.  But he might not!</p>
<p>(Where this metaphor breaks down, though, is that Henry from the other post <i>IS</i> like Bob, except that a bunch of women are lining up to give him lungs.  Whereas Ben, who was born with a congenital pulmonary flaw, gets chased with pitchforks and torches whenever he mentions he needs a lung.)</p>
<p>[I suggest that responses to this be forked elsewhere, to restore column length.]</p>
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