<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Life Cycle of Medical Ideas</title>
	<atom:link href="http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/</link>
	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2015 06:21:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Phil Goetz</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-17550</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phil Goetz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Oct 2013 21:06:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-17550</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is an older and more-important example than these: Genetic tests for diseases. I don&#039;t mean testing the patient&#039;s genes; I mean taking a biopsy and finding out what foreign genes are in it. You can do this with PCR, hybridization microarrays, or gene sequencing. (Well, you always use PCR, but you would use it differently if you were going to follow up with a microarray or sequencing.)

Many people die every year from undiagnosed bacterial infections. We&#039;ve known for 25 years how to quickly, easily, and cheaply diagnose most bacterial infections with such tests. But you can&#039;t patent use of PCR for testing, as it is too obvious to patent. And nobody could afford the trials needed to get FDA approval anyway, because the FDA insists on having a separate trial for each strain being tested for.

The method is generic: Choose the genome you want to detect and use an algorithm to design a set of probes for it. Download Genbank, let your computer crank away it it over the weekend, and you&#039;ll have your set of primers or probes to test for the presence of every genome in Genbank. You might choose just 382 of the most-likely ones, to put on a 384-well microplate.

But the FDA wants a separate study for each of those 382 primers. Nobody could afford that even if they could patent the method. So hospitals keep using immunological assays, which are slow, unreliable, expensive, and can test for only one thing at a time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is an older and more-important example than these: Genetic tests for diseases. I don&#8217;t mean testing the patient&#8217;s genes; I mean taking a biopsy and finding out what foreign genes are in it. You can do this with PCR, hybridization microarrays, or gene sequencing. (Well, you always use PCR, but you would use it differently if you were going to follow up with a microarray or sequencing.)</p>
<p>Many people die every year from undiagnosed bacterial infections. We&#8217;ve known for 25 years how to quickly, easily, and cheaply diagnose most bacterial infections with such tests. But you can&#8217;t patent use of PCR for testing, as it is too obvious to patent. And nobody could afford the trials needed to get FDA approval anyway, because the FDA insists on having a separate trial for each strain being tested for.</p>
<p>The method is generic: Choose the genome you want to detect and use an algorithm to design a set of probes for it. Download Genbank, let your computer crank away it it over the weekend, and you&#8217;ll have your set of primers or probes to test for the presence of every genome in Genbank. You might choose just 382 of the most-likely ones, to put on a 384-well microplate.</p>
<p>But the FDA wants a separate study for each of those 382 primers. Nobody could afford that even if they could patent the method. So hospitals keep using immunological assays, which are slow, unreliable, expensive, and can test for only one thing at a time.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '17550', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Friday Links &#124; Meta Rabbit</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Friday Links &#124; Meta Rabbit]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Sep 2013 08:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] 1. The Life Cycle of Medical Ideas [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 1. The Life Cycle of Medical Ideas [&#8230;]</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16786', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JPH</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16662</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JPH]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Sep 2013 08:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16662</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So here&#039;s a idea your post semi-incubated:

----
SkinChance: a Massively Multi-Patient Medical Study (Proposal)

Try Everything - Pay to Participate

Vitiligo is a condition that occurs when the cells responsible for skin pigmentation are unable to function. The root cause of vitiligo is unknown, and recommended treatments for the condition are require either specialist intervention in the form of skin grafts, or increase the likelihood of skin cancer by using UV photo therapy. All currently know treatments have highly variable success rates. 

We propose a massively multi-patient study where worldwide patients are pay a nominal fee to participate (in the order of $10 + personal medicine costs) through crowdfunding, agree to test selected medicine on themselves for the trial period, and share results with the wider patient group in exchange for early access to the trials collated data. 

This would give the opportunity and incentive to try a wider range of medicines than possible with geographically and personal schedule limiting hospital based studies. All forms of topical medication should initially be considered, but for scope purposes given for a trial group of 5000 patients/partcipants, testing in the order of 500 existing topical medications could be feasible. Specifically designing a study for in many cases using &quot;off-label&quot; local topical medication has risks, and weighted consideration between dosage, accessibility and availability of the existing medication, previous success factors, and known side effects must be considered. Motivating the patient/participant to keep to a prescribed treatment schedule, and accurately self report result is another risk for the study. 
---

But hey,... why not? Thoughts?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So here&#8217;s a idea your post semi-incubated:</p>
<p>&#8212;-<br />
SkinChance: a Massively Multi-Patient Medical Study (Proposal)</p>
<p>Try Everything &#8211; Pay to Participate</p>
<p>Vitiligo is a condition that occurs when the cells responsible for skin pigmentation are unable to function. The root cause of vitiligo is unknown, and recommended treatments for the condition are require either specialist intervention in the form of skin grafts, or increase the likelihood of skin cancer by using UV photo therapy. All currently know treatments have highly variable success rates. </p>
<p>We propose a massively multi-patient study where worldwide patients are pay a nominal fee to participate (in the order of $10 + personal medicine costs) through crowdfunding, agree to test selected medicine on themselves for the trial period, and share results with the wider patient group in exchange for early access to the trials collated data. </p>
<p>This would give the opportunity and incentive to try a wider range of medicines than possible with geographically and personal schedule limiting hospital based studies. All forms of topical medication should initially be considered, but for scope purposes given for a trial group of 5000 patients/partcipants, testing in the order of 500 existing topical medications could be feasible. Specifically designing a study for in many cases using &#8220;off-label&#8221; local topical medication has risks, and weighted consideration between dosage, accessibility and availability of the existing medication, previous success factors, and known side effects must be considered. Motivating the patient/participant to keep to a prescribed treatment schedule, and accurately self report result is another risk for the study.<br />
&#8212;</p>
<p>But hey,&#8230; why not? Thoughts?</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16662', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Alexander</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16656</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Did that last part happen?! It&#039;s still available in health food stores in the US.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did that last part happen?! It&#8217;s still available in health food stores in the US.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16656', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Deiseach</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16655</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Deiseach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16655</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s possibly because it&#039;s so weird, no-one can come up with a plausible reason why something that treats acne should help schizophrenia.

Which, in combination with what you say about the hypertension medication, makes me wonder if some of the symptoms associated with schizophrenia might be down to something crazy like &#039;brain inflammation&#039; (I&#039;m sure there&#039;s a proper medical term for it).  Relieve the inflammation/pressure on a certain area, and the symptoms clear up.

The way that stomach ulcers used to be ascribed to stress and an unhealthy lifestyle, then someone came along with the crazy notion that you got ulcers because of a bacterial infection, and here&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Heliobacter pylori&lt;/em&gt; smiling and waving at us.

&lt;em&gt;alternative medicine, which has been proven not to work by studies but people still use it anyway because they are stupid&lt;/em&gt;

That&#039;s the attitude that drives me nuts.  Yes, a lot of &#039;alternative medicine&#039; is woo-woo stuff; yes, a lot of it is &#039;old wives&#039; tales&#039;; yes, a lot of it is things that used to work okay but now we have better and safer drugs that do the job instead.

But people don&#039;t take cures because they&#039;re stupid, it&#039;s because (a) they don&#039;t have access to anything better or (b) they&#039;ve tried everything else and this is last-gasp desperation.  The way people used to take St. John&#039;s Wort to the eye-rolling and patronising smiles of the medical profession, until somebody tested it, found out &quot;Holy crap, it &lt;em&gt;does&lt;/em&gt; have an effect&quot; and it was hauled off the shelves of all the health food stores because now it was An Official Drug and now you need a prescription for it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possibly because it&#8217;s so weird, no-one can come up with a plausible reason why something that treats acne should help schizophrenia.</p>
<p>Which, in combination with what you say about the hypertension medication, makes me wonder if some of the symptoms associated with schizophrenia might be down to something crazy like &#8216;brain inflammation&#8217; (I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s a proper medical term for it).  Relieve the inflammation/pressure on a certain area, and the symptoms clear up.</p>
<p>The way that stomach ulcers used to be ascribed to stress and an unhealthy lifestyle, then someone came along with the crazy notion that you got ulcers because of a bacterial infection, and here&#8217;s <em>Heliobacter pylori</em> smiling and waving at us.</p>
<p><em>alternative medicine, which has been proven not to work by studies but people still use it anyway because they are stupid</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;s the attitude that drives me nuts.  Yes, a lot of &#8216;alternative medicine&#8217; is woo-woo stuff; yes, a lot of it is &#8216;old wives&#8217; tales'; yes, a lot of it is things that used to work okay but now we have better and safer drugs that do the job instead.</p>
<p>But people don&#8217;t take cures because they&#8217;re stupid, it&#8217;s because (a) they don&#8217;t have access to anything better or (b) they&#8217;ve tried everything else and this is last-gasp desperation.  The way people used to take St. John&#8217;s Wort to the eye-rolling and patronising smiles of the medical profession, until somebody tested it, found out &#8220;Holy crap, it <em>does</em> have an effect&#8221; and it was hauled off the shelves of all the health food stores because now it was An Official Drug and now you need a prescription for it.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16655', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David Gerard</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16654</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Gerard]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, Ben Goldacre has &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.alltrials.net&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;more than a few things to say&lt;/a&gt; about drug company distortions of data - it does in fact involve not publishing negative results and so forth, and this is provably a serious problem. He&#039;s doing quite well at keeping AllTrials.net in the public attention.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Ben Goldacre has <a href="http://www.alltrials.net" rel="nofollow">more than a few things to say</a> about drug company distortions of data &#8211; it does in fact involve not publishing negative results and so forth, and this is provably a serious problem. He&#8217;s doing quite well at keeping AllTrials.net in the public attention.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16654', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sabio Lantz</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16652</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sabio Lantz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 17:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fantastic tour of three examples.  I totally agree that conservatism and lack-of-imaginable-profit give us bias challenges in medicine.  And that these biases are covered with the sanctimony of &quot;Science&quot; is a shame.

Minocycline gave me horrible vertigo, but I&#039;d trade that for paranoid delusions!  ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic tour of three examples.  I totally agree that conservatism and lack-of-imaginable-profit give us bias challenges in medicine.  And that these biases are covered with the sanctimony of &#8220;Science&#8221; is a shame.</p>
<p>Minocycline gave me horrible vertigo, but I&#8217;d trade that for paranoid delusions!  😉</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16652', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Alexander</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Scott Alexander]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 00:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know nearly as much about insurance formularies as I should. Are they just a list of drugs, or do they also give indications (for example, list whether minocycline has a psychiatric indication)?

I was actually thinking of the term &quot;thought leader&quot; as I wrote this article, but it&#039;s so fuzzy that I think it raises more questions than it answers. 

You said that at your institution people were talking about minocycline? Do you mind relaying what they said? If professors and attendings are discussing this kind of thing, the content of their discussions seems to be exactly the sort of information I would need to educate myself on how this process goes ahead.

Also, I am really happy to discover that you exist. I&#039;d never heard of you or your blog before, and it will be very nice to have another rationalist psychiatry resident to talk to, question, and occasionally rant at. I have subscribed to your blog and I look forward to reading more of your stuff. 

(that genetic test on clozapine seems like another example of something important people don&#039;t know about)

And although I appreciate the need to debunk hysterical claims about how evil drug companies are, saying that they don&#039;t distort data goes a little far - &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/deconstructing_a_promotional_s.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this is my go-to example&lt;/A&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know nearly as much about insurance formularies as I should. Are they just a list of drugs, or do they also give indications (for example, list whether minocycline has a psychiatric indication)?</p>
<p>I was actually thinking of the term &#8220;thought leader&#8221; as I wrote this article, but it&#8217;s so fuzzy that I think it raises more questions than it answers. </p>
<p>You said that at your institution people were talking about minocycline? Do you mind relaying what they said? If professors and attendings are discussing this kind of thing, the content of their discussions seems to be exactly the sort of information I would need to educate myself on how this process goes ahead.</p>
<p>Also, I am really happy to discover that you exist. I&#8217;d never heard of you or your blog before, and it will be very nice to have another rationalist psychiatry resident to talk to, question, and occasionally rant at. I have subscribed to your blog and I look forward to reading more of your stuff. </p>
<p>(that genetic test on clozapine seems like another example of something important people don&#8217;t know about)</p>
<p>And although I appreciate the need to debunk hysterical claims about how evil drug companies are, saying that they don&#8217;t distort data goes a little far &#8211; <a HREF="http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/deconstructing_a_promotional_s.html" rel="nofollow">this is my go-to example</a>.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16644', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Doug S.</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16643</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug S.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 00:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16643</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Minocycline does seem to be getting more attention:

http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/newsarticle.aspx?articleid=1310500]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Minocycline does seem to be getting more attention:</p>
<p><a href="http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/newsarticle.aspx?articleid=1310500" rel="nofollow">http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/newsarticle.aspx?articleid=1310500</a></p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16643', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Douglas Knight</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/12/the-life-cycle-of-medical-ideas/#comment-16642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Douglas Knight]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Sep 2013 00:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=976#comment-16642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are drug companies ever so creative as to game the patent system that way? They do isolate chiral forms and pretend that the original dose was limited by the other isomer, but other than that one trick, I don&#039;t see it. (They do, all the time, make small changes to existing treatments, but then the FDA makes them do head-to-head comparisons, so they probably think that they&#039;re actually improving the drug, not gaming the system.)

If only the original acne doctor had gotten a use patent, rather than utopically giving away knowledge, we&#039;d be home free.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are drug companies ever so creative as to game the patent system that way? They do isolate chiral forms and pretend that the original dose was limited by the other isomer, but other than that one trick, I don&#8217;t see it. (They do, all the time, make small changes to existing treatments, but then the FDA makes them do head-to-head comparisons, so they probably think that they&#8217;re actually improving the drug, not gaming the system.)</p>
<p>If only the original acne doctor had gotten a use patent, rather than utopically giving away knowledge, we&#8217;d be home free.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '16642', '4b33b77030')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
