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	<title>Comments on: Read History Of Philosophy Backwards</title>
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	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
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		<title>By: Jaskologist</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-131569</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jaskologist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2014 12:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;1. politics is the harmonization of individual interests. You don’t want to get killed, I don’t want to get killed; let’s start a state.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This idea can be traced at least as far back as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aug-city2.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;St. Augustine&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;But the things which this city desires cannot justly be said to be evil, for it is itself, in its own kind, better than all other human good. For it desires earthly peace for the sake of enjoying earthly goods, and it makes war in order to attain to this peace; since, if it has conquered, and there remains no one to resist it, it enjoys a peace which it had not while there were opposing parties who contested for the enjoyment of those things which were too small to satisfy both.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>1. politics is the harmonization of individual interests. You don’t want to get killed, I don’t want to get killed; let’s start a state.</p></blockquote>
<p>This idea can be traced at least as far back as <a href="http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/aug-city2.asp" rel="nofollow">St. Augustine</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>But the things which this city desires cannot justly be said to be evil, for it is itself, in its own kind, better than all other human good. For it desires earthly peace for the sake of enjoying earthly goods, and it makes war in order to attain to this peace; since, if it has conquered, and there remains no one to resist it, it enjoys a peace which it had not while there were opposing parties who contested for the enjoyment of those things which were too small to satisfy both.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-45145</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2014 15:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Hobbes lived through the English Civil War. He considered a strong, centralized authority, no matter how corrupt or evil, preferable to the chaos of civil strife or Puritan-dominated republicanism. And absolute monarchy, an autocracy with very clear lines of succession (i.e., primogeniture), probably seemed as strong and centralized as you could get at the time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hobbes lived through the English Civil War. He considered a strong, centralized authority, no matter how corrupt or evil, preferable to the chaos of civil strife or Puritan-dominated republicanism. And absolute monarchy, an autocracy with very clear lines of succession (i.e., primogeniture), probably seemed as strong and centralized as you could get at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaj Sotala</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kaj Sotala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Apr 2013 16:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;You… were? I was thinking of saying what Chris did. I have to actively seek out people ranting about the Enlightenment, usually conservative Catholics on LJ.&lt;/i&gt;

Same here, pretty much. The only people who my mind returns when I ask it to list &quot;people talking about the Enlightenment a lot&quot; are:

* Michael Vassar
* Reactionaries, and there it should be noted that most of what I know about them comes via this blog]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You… were? I was thinking of saying what Chris did. I have to actively seek out people ranting about the Enlightenment, usually conservative Catholics on LJ.</i></p>
<p>Same here, pretty much. The only people who my mind returns when I ask it to list &#8220;people talking about the Enlightenment a lot&#8221; are:</p>
<p>* Michael Vassar<br />
* Reactionaries, and there it should be noted that most of what I know about them comes via this blog</p>
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		<title>By: Federico</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3298</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Federico]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Ah, I see.

It seems that you deny any distinction between &quot;atonal&quot; and &quot;tonal&quot; music, since the former is quantitatively more complex than the latter but not qualitatively different. Perhaps I should have said: &quot;tonal vs. atonal music&quot; is a bad paradigm.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see.</p>
<p>It seems that you deny any distinction between &#8220;atonal&#8221; and &#8220;tonal&#8221; music, since the former is quantitatively more complex than the latter but not qualitatively different. Perhaps I should have said: &#8220;tonal vs. atonal music&#8221; is a bad paradigm.</p>
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		<title>By: komponisto</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3293</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[komponisto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 12:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Curious if you could elaborate, or point to something more detailed, on what’s wrong with music theory&lt;/i&gt;

The links that others have provided should give you an idea, but I&#039;ll make an attempt at a high-level summary. I have two basic complaints:

(1) The purpose of a musical theory is to provide a method of storing and manipulating music in one&#039;s mind. The method for this implied by traditional theory is so inefficient as to be unworkable. (Which is why no one takes traditional theory literally; instead they rely on tacit knowledge -- often referred to as &quot;talent&quot; -- and tell you that some musical phenomena are outside the scope of music theory!) 

(2) Traditional music theory not only obscures but outright denies the continuity between pre-1900 music and post-1900 music. It assumes (and thus promotes) what I call the &quot;discontinuity thesis&quot; -- the idea that post-1900 Western art music is so different from the Western art music of previous eras as to effectively constitute a distinct musical tradition (i.e. not in fact &quot;Western art music&quot; at all). I view this idea as very harmful, not least because it is false.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Curious if you could elaborate, or point to something more detailed, on what’s wrong with music theory</i></p>
<p>The links that others have provided should give you an idea, but I&#8217;ll make an attempt at a high-level summary. I have two basic complaints:</p>
<p>(1) The purpose of a musical theory is to provide a method of storing and manipulating music in one&#8217;s mind. The method for this implied by traditional theory is so inefficient as to be unworkable. (Which is why no one takes traditional theory literally; instead they rely on tacit knowledge &#8212; often referred to as &#8220;talent&#8221; &#8212; and tell you that some musical phenomena are outside the scope of music theory!) </p>
<p>(2) Traditional music theory not only obscures but outright denies the continuity between pre-1900 music and post-1900 music. It assumes (and thus promotes) what I call the &#8220;discontinuity thesis&#8221; &#8212; the idea that post-1900 Western art music is so different from the Western art music of previous eras as to effectively constitute a distinct musical tradition (i.e. not in fact &#8220;Western art music&#8221; at all). I view this idea as very harmful, not least because it is false.</p>
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		<title>By: komponisto</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3291</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[komponisto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I was in short order convinced that Westergaard and komponisto are correct: tonality and chord progressions are a bad paradigm. &lt;/i&gt;

&quot;Chord progressions&quot; are the bad paradigm; they shouldn&#039;t be confused with &lt;i&gt;tonality&lt;/i&gt;. Tonality is central in Westergaard&#039;s theory (indeed he would say that it is what his theory is a theory &lt;i&gt;of&lt;/i&gt;! -- hence the title of his book, &lt;i&gt;An Introduction to Tonal Theory&lt;/i&gt;), and indeed in my current one (which by this point has gotten radical enough to be considered distinct from Westergaard&#039;s, though the relationship is still fairly easily traceable).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I was in short order convinced that Westergaard and komponisto are correct: tonality and chord progressions are a bad paradigm. </i></p>
<p>&#8220;Chord progressions&#8221; are the bad paradigm; they shouldn&#8217;t be confused with <i>tonality</i>. Tonality is central in Westergaard&#8217;s theory (indeed he would say that it is what his theory is a theory <i>of</i>! &#8212; hence the title of his book, <i>An Introduction to Tonal Theory</i>), and indeed in my current one (which by this point has gotten radical enough to be considered distinct from Westergaard&#8217;s, though the relationship is still fairly easily traceable).</p>
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		<title>By: komponisto</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3289</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[komponisto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Apr 2013 11:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;You sound like the owner of Mathemusicality – are you the same person?&lt;/i&gt;

Hmm....I certainly have &lt;i&gt;profound sympathies&lt;/i&gt; with that person, although unlike them I have continued to exist well beyond 2009, even into 2013.

&lt;i&gt;I’m curious about the folk music theory that you mention, would you mind elaborating on that?&lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s a mess of incoherent and mutually contradictory beliefs such as:

(1) Music is not made of parts and is created by magical wizards. Wizards discover their powers instantly upon their first random attempts at creation. 

(2) Non-wizards can (sometimes) learn to perform music, but not to compose it. However, non-wizards are just as good as wizards at listening, modulo unimportant details.

(3) Music is made out of atoms that have a well-defined property called &quot;pleasing to humans&quot;. To compose music, it suffices to concatenate a string of such atoms.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>You sound like the owner of Mathemusicality – are you the same person?</i></p>
<p>Hmm&#8230;.I certainly have <i>profound sympathies</i> with that person, although unlike them I have continued to exist well beyond 2009, even into 2013.</p>
<p><i>I’m curious about the folk music theory that you mention, would you mind elaborating on that?</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s a mess of incoherent and mutually contradictory beliefs such as:</p>
<p>(1) Music is not made of parts and is created by magical wizards. Wizards discover their powers instantly upon their first random attempts at creation. </p>
<p>(2) Non-wizards can (sometimes) learn to perform music, but not to compose it. However, non-wizards are just as good as wizards at listening, modulo unimportant details.</p>
<p>(3) Music is made out of atoms that have a well-defined property called &#8220;pleasing to humans&#8221;. To compose music, it suffices to concatenate a string of such atoms.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaxser</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3241</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Zaxser]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Apr 2013 22:33:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[What di you mean by that, Joe?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What di you mean by that, Joe?</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Brown</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3204</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron Brown]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Apr 2013 15:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I encourage komponisto themselves to answer but &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/g8/bruteforce_music_composition/db0&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s a relevant komponisto comment on LW&lt;/a&gt;.  (And some more: &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/19f/open_thread_october_2009/2h5s&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/64/helpless_individuals/325s&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/3gu/the_best_textbooks_on_every_subject/3cmp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/3gu/the_best_textbooks_on_every_subject/3j7u&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://lesswrong.com/lw/84b/things_you_are_supposed_to_like/52v6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I encourage komponisto themselves to answer but <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/g8/bruteforce_music_composition/db0" rel="nofollow">here&#8217;s a relevant komponisto comment on LW</a>.  (And some more: <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/19f/open_thread_october_2009/2h5s" rel="nofollow">1</a> <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/64/helpless_individuals/325s" rel="nofollow">2</a> <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/3gu/the_best_textbooks_on_every_subject/3cmp" rel="nofollow">3</a> <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/3gu/the_best_textbooks_on_every_subject/3j7u" rel="nofollow">4</a> <a href="http://lesswrong.com/lw/84b/things_you_are_supposed_to_like/52v6" rel="nofollow">5</a>.)</p>
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		<title>By: endoself</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/11/read-history-of-philosophy-backwards/#comment-3119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[endoself]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Apr 2013 00:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been wondering about/being confused about this recently.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering about/being confused about this recently.</p>
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