<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Valleys have two sides</title>
	<atom:link href="http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/</link>
	<description>In a mad world, all blogging is psychiatry blogging</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2015 13:48:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Multiheaded</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Multiheaded]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s an understatement! One of M.M.&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ru/2007/04/essential-idea-of-leftism.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;earlier posts&lt;/a&gt;, hilariously enough, &lt;i&gt;defines &quot;Leftism&quot;&lt;/i&gt; as the &quot;idea... ....that the world should be governed by scholars.&quot; Of course, as people pointed out in the comments, this is nonsense, being entirely orthogonal to a post-Enlightenment, Western understanding of &quot;left&quot; and &quot;right&quot; philosophies - take Confucianism vs. anarchism - but I think there&#039;s something to be said here for the necessity of &lt;i&gt;completely&lt;/i&gt; mapping the power relations in a society/structure before discussing ostensibly &quot;left&quot; and &quot;right&quot; views regarding it.   
     
&lt;a href=&quot;http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/04/a-thrivesurvive-theory-of-the-political-spectrum/#comment-721&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a better attempt to describe what kind of elites &quot;Leftists&quot; or &quot;Rightists&quot; seemingly prefer to see in charge - but again, Confucianism or the Catholic Church don&#039;t seem to have much leftist/liberal drift despite being organized around memetics/scholarship/control of information, and on the other side, some groups from hunter-gatherer tribes to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno&quot;Ukrainian&lt;/a&gt; or &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spanish&lt;/a&gt; anarchists and modern Third World guerrillas combine &quot;leftist&quot; attitudes and egalitarianism with violence and rule by military force.

As Oligopsony pointed out somewhere else around here, a better explanation would be that &quot;leftists&quot; are generally hostile to &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; types of hierarchies and relations of dominance, but not at all in agreement on how to displace/weaken them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an understatement! One of M.M.&#8217;s <a href="http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ru/2007/04/essential-idea-of-leftism.html" rel="nofollow">earlier posts</a>, hilariously enough, <i>defines &#8220;Leftism&#8221;</i> as the &#8220;idea&#8230; &#8230;.that the world should be governed by scholars.&#8221; Of course, as people pointed out in the comments, this is nonsense, being entirely orthogonal to a post-Enlightenment, Western understanding of &#8220;left&#8221; and &#8220;right&#8221; philosophies &#8211; take Confucianism vs. anarchism &#8211; but I think there&#8217;s something to be said here for the necessity of <i>completely</i> mapping the power relations in a society/structure before discussing ostensibly &#8220;left&#8221; and &#8220;right&#8221; views regarding it.   </p>
<p><a href="http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/04/a-thrivesurvive-theory-of-the-political-spectrum/#comment-721" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is a better attempt to describe what kind of elites &#8220;Leftists&#8221; or &#8220;Rightists&#8221; seemingly prefer to see in charge &#8211; but again, Confucianism or the Catholic Church don&#8217;t seem to have much leftist/liberal drift despite being organized around memetics/scholarship/control of information, and on the other side, some groups from hunter-gatherer tribes to the &lt;a href=&quot;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno&quot;Ukrainian" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno&quot;Ukrainian</a> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Catalonia" rel="nofollow">Spanish</a> anarchists and modern Third World guerrillas combine &#8220;leftist&#8221; attitudes and egalitarianism with violence and rule by military force.</p>
<p>As Oligopsony pointed out somewhere else around here, a better explanation would be that &#8220;leftists&#8221; are generally hostile to <i>some</i> types of hierarchies and relations of dominance, but not at all in agreement on how to displace/weaken them.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1854', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Mar 2013 19:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In my view the reactionary ideal, and not coincidentally the most stable society in world history is Switzerland, not a monarchy, and certainly not any one of the 20th century dictatorships.

Staying out of both WWI and WWII while being squarely in the center of it both times... This is utterly anomalous in world history. Der Fuhrer coveted Switzerland and hated its people desperately but no dice. A lake of glass-smooth calm amid the worst carnage in world history.

And it continues. All of Europe roils in catastrophic economic disaster year after year and in Switzerland, right in the middle of it all.... almost nothing. 

What is the secret? Extreme localism. Power is disseminated locally all the way to the most local level, with every household required to have what is basically a machine gun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my view the reactionary ideal, and not coincidentally the most stable society in world history is Switzerland, not a monarchy, and certainly not any one of the 20th century dictatorships.</p>
<p>Staying out of both WWI and WWII while being squarely in the center of it both times&#8230; This is utterly anomalous in world history. Der Fuhrer coveted Switzerland and hated its people desperately but no dice. A lake of glass-smooth calm amid the worst carnage in world history.</p>
<p>And it continues. All of Europe roils in catastrophic economic disaster year after year and in Switzerland, right in the middle of it all&#8230;. almost nothing. </p>
<p>What is the secret? Extreme localism. Power is disseminated locally all the way to the most local level, with every household required to have what is basically a machine gun.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1796', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1770</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Mar 2013 15:59:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am a reactionary, and I think there is a reactionary solution that works really well. It is *localism*. Not some superstate. Localism is not one solution, and it is just a principle. 

Advantages of localism:
1 - The system is robust, because failure is okay. With massive superstates, failure is a disaster.
2 - Decisions are made by the people they affect and not at 30,000 feet.
3 - There are many solutions going on simultaneously. Some will invariably be effective.
4 - If you don&#039;t like the place, no biggie. Just move to a different one, since there are many to choose from.
5 - Places can learn from each other. If one place has a better policy that another place, it&#039;s okay, because people are voting with their feet and the one with the worse policy will become uncompetitive.




Localism is not pie in the sky. It is the heart of why capitalism works and why Communism does not. It is why America worked so well for most of its history. Localism is also the only thing that will save us. Marriage is not dead because high status and successful people recognize its value. Crime  is not out of control because local jurisdictions everywhere looked into the abyss in recent decades.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a reactionary, and I think there is a reactionary solution that works really well. It is *localism*. Not some superstate. Localism is not one solution, and it is just a principle. </p>
<p>Advantages of localism:<br />
1 &#8211; The system is robust, because failure is okay. With massive superstates, failure is a disaster.<br />
2 &#8211; Decisions are made by the people they affect and not at 30,000 feet.<br />
3 &#8211; There are many solutions going on simultaneously. Some will invariably be effective.<br />
4 &#8211; If you don&#8217;t like the place, no biggie. Just move to a different one, since there are many to choose from.<br />
5 &#8211; Places can learn from each other. If one place has a better policy that another place, it&#8217;s okay, because people are voting with their feet and the one with the worse policy will become uncompetitive.</p>
<p>Localism is not pie in the sky. It is the heart of why capitalism works and why Communism does not. It is why America worked so well for most of its history. Localism is also the only thing that will save us. Marriage is not dead because high status and successful people recognize its value. Crime  is not out of control because local jurisdictions everywhere looked into the abyss in recent decades.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1770', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: James A. Donald</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[James A. Donald]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Mar 2013 06:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;em&gt;But this is totally comparing apples and oranges. The opposite of perfect unimpeded progress up the right side of the valley is perfect unimpeded progress up the left side of the valley. The opposite of attempted progress up the left side dragged down by lingering rightists is attempted progress up the right side dragged down by lingering leftists.&lt;/em&gt;

Oppressive leftism - which is what we have now - makes politics compulsory.

Oppressive rightism - which english speakers have not had for several centuries - makes politics forbidden.

Thus leftism tends ever to lunatic extremism.  Rightism does not.  Given the number people killed by politics in the twentieth century, oppressive rightism has a plausible case.

In the late nineteenth century, people were getting nervous about expressing politically incorrect views, a nervousness I never saw in older books except during the reign of James the second.  They have been getting steadily more nervous - thus we have ever increasing levels of left wing repression, which cause ever more leftwards movement at an ever increasing rate.

When Marie Curie got not one but two Nobels for work that was unremarkable when men did similar or considerably more important work, the world was already mandatory raving moonbat left, and has moved ever leftwards since then at an ever increasing rate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>But this is totally comparing apples and oranges. The opposite of perfect unimpeded progress up the right side of the valley is perfect unimpeded progress up the left side of the valley. The opposite of attempted progress up the left side dragged down by lingering rightists is attempted progress up the right side dragged down by lingering leftists.</em></p>
<p>Oppressive leftism &#8211; which is what we have now &#8211; makes politics compulsory.</p>
<p>Oppressive rightism &#8211; which english speakers have not had for several centuries &#8211; makes politics forbidden.</p>
<p>Thus leftism tends ever to lunatic extremism.  Rightism does not.  Given the number people killed by politics in the twentieth century, oppressive rightism has a plausible case.</p>
<p>In the late nineteenth century, people were getting nervous about expressing politically incorrect views, a nervousness I never saw in older books except during the reign of James the second.  They have been getting steadily more nervous &#8211; thus we have ever increasing levels of left wing repression, which cause ever more leftwards movement at an ever increasing rate.</p>
<p>When Marie Curie got not one but two Nobels for work that was unremarkable when men did similar or considerably more important work, the world was already mandatory raving moonbat left, and has moved ever leftwards since then at an ever increasing rate.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1539', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1505</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:29:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Reactionaries think some other accountability mechanism would be better – but no one agrees on what that mechanism should be.&quot;

Bit of a fatal flaw, there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Reactionaries think some other accountability mechanism would be better – but no one agrees on what that mechanism should be.&#8221;</p>
<p>Bit of a fatal flaw, there.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1505', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1504</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1504</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Malaria was endemic in the marshlands of eastern Virginia during the time, and Cornwallis&#039;s army suffered greatly from the disease; he estimated during the surrender that half of his army was unable to fight as a result. The Continental Army enjoyed an advantage, in that most of their members had grown up with malaria, and hence had acquired resistance to the disease. As malaria has a month-long incubation period, most of the French soldiers had not begun to exhibit symptoms before the surrender.[73][74]&quot;

Kind of a major barrier to continental power in the southern US.  Unless they recruited black Africans as soldiers or something.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Malaria was endemic in the marshlands of eastern Virginia during the time, and Cornwallis&#8217;s army suffered greatly from the disease; he estimated during the surrender that half of his army was unable to fight as a result. The Continental Army enjoyed an advantage, in that most of their members had grown up with malaria, and hence had acquired resistance to the disease. As malaria has a month-long incubation period, most of the French soldiers had not begun to exhibit symptoms before the surrender.[73][74]&#8221;</p>
<p>Kind of a major barrier to continental power in the southern US.  Unless they recruited black Africans as soldiers or something.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1504', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1502</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1502</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, that was a rather poorly written and pointless propaganda squib of your own.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that was a rather poorly written and pointless propaganda squib of your own.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1502', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1501</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1501</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[_Better Angels_ is mostly about lethal violence, with some spillover into torture, animal cruelty, and rights.  If one wanted to attack his &quot;states make things much better&quot; argument, I think the most promising ground would be to look at the oppression of being a heavily taxed and malnourished peasant.  Is it better to be free, healthy, and have a good chance of being hacked to death, or to be an overworked serf/slave/wife in purdah safe from violence if obedient?  A pretty oversimplified dichotomy, but the spirit is &quot;bursts of lethal violence vs. lifetime grinding violence&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>_Better Angels_ is mostly about lethal violence, with some spillover into torture, animal cruelty, and rights.  If one wanted to attack his &#8220;states make things much better&#8221; argument, I think the most promising ground would be to look at the oppression of being a heavily taxed and malnourished peasant.  Is it better to be free, healthy, and have a good chance of being hacked to death, or to be an overworked serf/slave/wife in purdah safe from violence if obedient?  A pretty oversimplified dichotomy, but the spirit is &#8220;bursts of lethal violence vs. lifetime grinding violence&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1501', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1499</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1499</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, it&#039;s not like Western armies invaded the early USSR seeking to overthrow it or something.  Oh, wait.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s not like Western armies invaded the early USSR seeking to overthrow it or something.  Oh, wait.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1499', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Damien</title>
		<link>http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/13/valleys-have-two-sides/#comment-1498</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Damien]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Mar 2013 20:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://slatestarcodex.com/?p=280#comment-1498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lenin?  No.  But social democracy bears a distinct though not complete resemblance to the 10 point plan of the Communist Manifesto.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lenin?  No.  But social democracy bears a distinct though not complete resemblance to the 10 point plan of the Communist Manifesto.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(0)" onclick="report_comments_flag(this, '1498', '3412210cfd')" class="report-comment">Report comment</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
